cartesiandaemon asked recently when I became interested in the

[ghoti_mhic_uait]

Which I thought was quite an interesting question, mostly because it never occurred to me that people might not be interested.

My first thought was 'well, I got interested in politics when I realised that was a thing I could study and it could be fun, and then it was' which isn't right. And I thought about how we didn't have a lot of money growing up, but honestly, as a child I always had enough to eat, a roof over my head and plenty of books, and thanks mostly to the generosity of others I went to beautiful places to learn beautiful things, so I never felt that I was that badly off.

Then I looked a bit further, and I really think this is a cradle-Catholic thing. I mean, I know there are cradle-Catholics who think differently than me, but in a church universal, that's bound to happen! And of course, other religions might have the same effect, and I'm not claiming that religious people have the monopoly on this kind of upbringing! But it does have an effect.

I'm talking about turning up and hearing '“The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”'(Mark 12: 29-31), we hear 'Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.' (Romans 13:8).

We hear 'When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest. And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner:' (Leviticus 19: 9-10) and 'Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common. And with great power the apostles were giving their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. There was not a needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold and laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need.' (Acts 4:32-34)


Now I know there are problems with taking bible verses out of context, and other people read and interpret differently - but when you start from a baby hearing 'God is love and anyone who lives in love, lives in God' (1 John 4:16), and see your church community turning that into feeding the hungry both literally and metaphorically, it's a pretty easy message to internalise and not a bad roadmap for life.

It's not just me, either: when Colin and I first got together, we were in church and sang this hymn, with which I was previously unfamiliar, and he leant over and said "This is what Christianity is about to me":
Will you let me be your servant,
Let me be as Christ to you?
Pray that I may have the grace to
Let me be your servant too.

Comments

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Incidentally, in the course of mulling over the question I realised, to my amusement, that I don't actually know a full verse of any of my relevant national anthems, but do know one verse of the Red flag. Which is probably all you need to know about my politics.


(I did eventually dredge up the first verse of God Save the Queen, but not before the second baritone part in the brass band arrangement came to mind, in case you were wondering why I forgot that one.)

[liv]

Ooh, this is really interesting, thank you for posting about it. Translating ideas about God's love into actually practically feeding the hungry is something I think Christianity is really good at, and it's very cool to hear how that fits for you personally.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't do much on a personal level. I mean, sure we throw a box of teabags* in the foodbank occasionally, but I don't do a lot of voluntary work or anything practical, rather than theoretical. But even that is worthwhile - talking about justice and peace, especially around children, I mean.


*the Cambridge one just appealed for teabags/instant coffee, it was in our newsletter.

[liv]

I think there's maybe a thing about a community, a religious institution, acting as a community? That is to say, that the reason the Church is more effective than just a bunch of friends who decide to get together and volunteer at the foodbank is because this kind of theoretical and spiritual stuff is going on in conjunction. (As well as creating beautiful things and a context that people want to belong to so that they continue to have the motivation to be doing the practical volunteering, so the music and the architecture and all the rest.) So when I say that Christianity is good at this I don't necessarily mean every individual Christian, I mean the whole context seems to be really well geared to nurture an exceptionally high proportion of kinds of people who do volunteer practically, if that makes sense?

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Yes, it really does. Sorry, I was just feeling randomly guilty, something else which Catholics are famous for. But I have plenty of gin so I'll be fine :)

[emperor]

obv. not a cradle Catholic here, but I remember childhood hymns ("I was cold, I was naked, were you there?") with a strong caring-for-the-deprived ethos, and I think it's influenced my politics and theology too. I find it hard to imagine how you tie up rapacious capitalism and the gospel.

[simont]

I find it hard to imagine how you tie up rapacious capitalism and the gospel.

It's always dangerous to speculate about the thought processes of people very unlike oneself, but I can't help wondering if American religious-right types at least might tend to deal with this by having a strong Cold War type instinct to Avoid Thinking Commie Thoughts, which could insulate the two belief-clusters from ever quite coming into contact with each other – any question of the form 'really, how are these two things remotely compatible?' gets squelched early, before you start to think it might need actually answering.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

Hm. I agree the juxtaposition of gospels and rampant capitalism seems odd to me, but I'm probably being unfair -- it's probably not because it contradicts the gospel, but because it contradicts a bit of the gospel _I_ think is good. Interpretations of Christianity I like, emphasise some parts of the gospel and don't emphasise others, except that I think that's the "obvious" way because they emphasise the parts I think are important and don't emphasise the parts I'm less sure of. If I'm honest, I want that, I don't want everyone to blindly follow the text even if it seems wrong to them, so it would be hypocritical of me to criticise other people for not doing that (even if I disagree with their interpretation for not being compassionate enough)...?

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

:) Exactly how I feel.

[mirabehn.livejournal.com]

Me too, very much. (And that hymn I've always loved!)

Even when I was "just" a Pagan rather than the slightly odd Christo-Pagan I am now, that caring-for-the-deprived ethos, as well as the Christian pacifism I grew up with in the FoR, carried on influencing me. It's one of the reasons why I was drawn specifically to Druidry rather than Wicca.

I've never really seen the *point* of any religion or religious position that doesn't regard both caring-for-the-deprived and caring for the environment as very high priorities. Help and inspiration with doing more of both is kind of what I want any religion I have much to do with to be for.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

*nod* I definitely know other people both religious and not who have the same kind of thing from childhood.

I think the Oxford Movement was good in this respects for all catholics, not just Anglo-Catholics (I mean, as much as I've read Newman or Manning or people like that, it's a theme they seem fond of), and possibly wider English Christianity, and that's why we as English people think like that? OTOH, my German side very definitely act that way, too... see the story of my Great-Grandfather and the international war crimes tribunal, of which I am sure everyone who knows me is heartily sick.

[mirabehn.livejournal.com]

This is a super post. Thank you for writing it. :-)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

:) I'm glad you appreciate it.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I am all interested but don't have anything particular to say.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

That's OK - thank you for making me think about something I took for granted, and feel free to do it again.