Names

[ghoti_mhic_uait]

I get very annoyed when I read name lists of 'British baby names' that have been gathered by Americans from the Torygraph announcement columns. They tend to not reflect real life. So, I decided to compile my own lists, and I'm putting them here to remember where I left them.

Edit: the 2009 names data is available!

The latest stats for England & Wales are 2008, so I've used the 2008 data for both countries.

These are the boy names that feature in the top 100 of England and Wales, but not the top 1000 in the US, and their England & Wales ranking:
Alfie (6)
Archie (31)
Harvey (34)
Theo (58)
Freddie (60)
Finlay (61)
Louie (93)
Ewan (95)
Zak (100)

These are the girl names that feature in the top 100 of Englang and Wales, but not the top 1000 in the US, and their England & Wales ranking:

Millie (24)
Freya (27)
Poppy (29)
Imogen (33)
Isobel (58)
Maisy (63)
Rosie (66)
Niamh (70)
Harriet (81)
Hollie (87)
Tilly (93)
Florence (94)
Maryam (99)
Esme (100)



Boys:
Oliver
Harry
Alfie
Charlie
George
Lewis
Mohammed
Jake
Max
Callum
Oscar
Archie
Riley
Harvey
Harrison
Muhammed
Leo
Edward
Finley
Rhys
Jamie
Toby
Ben
Theo
Louis
Freddie
Finlay
Leon
Harley
Mohammad
Reece
Kian
Kai
Kieran
Luca
Ashton
Bailey
Sam
Bradley
Elliot
Taylor
Joe
Corey
Reuben
Joel
Ellis
Louie
Ewan
Jay
Morgan
Billy
Zak

Girls:
Ruby
Lily
Evie
Lucy
Ellie
Katie
Holly
Summer
Millie
Daisy
Phoebe
Freya
Poppy
Erin
Molly
Imogen
Amy
Isla
Scarlett
Eva
Matilda
Caitlin
Keira
Alice
Lola
Lilly
Amber
Georgia
Eleanor
Bethany
Amelie
Isobel
Lacey
Sienna
Libby
Maisy
Rebecca
Rosie
Tia
Niamh
Zara
Lexi
Maddison
Alisha
Skye
Nicole
Lexie
Martha
Harriet
Eve
Aimee
Hollie
Lydia
Francesca
Tilly
Florence
Alicia
Abbie
Emilia
Courtney
Maryam
Esme



So, what does that all mean?
I find it utterly astonishing that three of the top ten girls names in England and Wales (Ruby at number 2, Lily at number 8 and Evie at number 10) don't make the US top 100. I guess there isn't as much shared culture/overlap as I thought.

There are some names that make the top 100 for boys in England and Wales, but not the US, that make the girls list there (Morgan, Taylor, Bailey). There are some names that used to be more popular in th US, that are waning in popularity now (Harrison, Courtney). I am wondering where all the American Muslims are -even most popular spelling Mohamed was at #430.

Overall, though, the main thing that catches my eye is that there are a lot of diminutives on that list (Alfie, Archie, Theo, Millie, Rosie, Tilly). I've been very surprised since having Judith the number of people who are suprised that Judy is a diminutive of Judith, for example... I think English people compartmentalise more, maybe.

Anyway, I hope at least one of you found that interesting.

Comments

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I see the trend for 'Victorian serving maid' names for girls (Harriet, Molly, Millie) continues unabated, then!

I don't understand the diminutives thing - Alfie, Archie etc. Surely it's better to give the kid the proper name, and call them the diminutive, so they can decide when they're older what they want to be?

That said, I grew up with an aunt called Else and a Great-Aunt Elsie and I never heard that their names were short for Elspeth or Elizabeth or whatever.

[rmc28]

We were interested to note, after naming Charles, that Charlie was a much more popular name.

Lots of Freddies these days after Mr Flintoff I believe. To think I insisted on using second-name Charles because the family-traditional first name Frederick would be too old-fashioned ...

[bopeepsheep.livejournal.com]

I had a great-aunt Elsie (born 1925, youngest of 11) who was just Elsie. Well, Elsie Rosemary, but YKWIM. OTOH her sister Connie was Constance, Winnie (Nana) was Winifred, and Dorrie was Doris, and their older brothers included Alfie (Alfred), Freddie (Frederick), Tommy (Thomas), Georgie (George) and Billy (William). Perhaps they just gave up on formal names by the time they had Elsie.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

My grandma claimed that they were poor and could only afford short names. Their eldest was Maureen and after that it was Ann, Else and Ron. Though I think Uncle Ron's a Ronald really.

[cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com]

I think there's a trade-off. If the names are sufficiently similar, I'd generally prefer the full form, and it feels silly to choose an OBVIOUS diminutive (although people can if they like). But when the name is sufficiently distinct, it can make sense to just adopt it as a name in its own right. I was christened[1] "Jack" and it felt like a bit of gamble. I like "Jack", I think it's me, and I'm glad I'm not originally John else I'd have to spend the rest of my life with 1/3 of people calling me "John" by default. (To be fair, if I'd been christened John, I'm sure I'd be used to it.) But if I didn't like it, I'd have had more choice if I'd have had a diminunable first name, or a middle name.

[1] Except I wasn't christened. But you know what I mean.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

I've never quite understood it - I want to give more options to the child. Some people say they prefer to name the child what they're going to call it. I knew full well by the time that Judith was born that I was going to call her Popocatapetl, now that's an odd name on a girl.

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

You gazed entranced upon her face, fairer than any flower (O shining Popocatapetl, it was thy magic hour)?

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Completely agree about giving them options - it's all very well naming the child what they want to call it *as a child*, but often those sweet childish names don't really suit an adult (our boys are Teddy and Wilfie *now* but I doubt that will survive beyond middle school if that.) With both our boys, having multiple options for what they'd like to be called as they got older was an important criterion (eg: Ed, Eddie, Ned; Wilf, Will, Fred. And of course they have their middle names as well if they want further options) Other factors included wanting something uncommon enough that half the class wouldn't turn round when the teacher called that name, but mainstream enough not to appear too outlandish. Also not having a short-form that was liable to lead to (too much) teasing.

I like both your children's names very much.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Thank you :) We put a lot of thought into popularity levels with Benedict, but there has always been another around (in his last class, the other Benedict had two middle names, but one of them was Michael, like my Benedict).

[jane-somebody.livejournal.com]

Benedict was on my short list both times, I like it a lot and I like Benet as a short form. And Michael is one of Wilfie's middle names :-) There is another Edward in Teddy's class at the moment, but he goes by Edward or Ed so that works out for now. (Aside: woah, how did Teddy get old enough to start school!)

[aellia.livejournal.com]

Very interesting!
I've never heard of Maryam. And do you know what Tilly is short for?
It's Ruby's second name. Jade's is Millie.
xx

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

Maryam's an Arabic name I believe - I used to work with a marvellous apostate Muslim (proper apostate, had the fatwa to prove it, which made opening her mail a test of courage) called Maryam Namazie. I think she was Iranian by birth.

I think Tilly's short for Matilda.

[ptc24.livejournal.com]

I believe it's the Arabic form of Mary/Miriam, as in the mother of Jesus.

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

Millie is my niece, but she's really an Émilie because her father's French. I didn't realise her nickname was so plentiful in its own right.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

I think even more so because I've heard of Millie from several roots - Emily, Amelia, Millicent and theoretically Mildred.

[alison-lees.livejournal.com]

and Daisy is meant to be short for Margaret, but we know a Daisy who is short for Anastasia.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

Matilda, Tallulah, various others.

[pjc50.livejournal.com]

It is interesting, like the various Freakonomics articles on the subject. It seems like the concept of formal names has gone out of fashion completely, and it's all diminutives all the time. Compare 'Dave' Cameron.

I think there are comparatively few Muslims in the US, compared to the UK.

[xanna.livejournal.com]

I firmly think of Theo (and Theodore) as American names. I really can't get that idea out of my head. I really like it though (and it's one of Rowan's names, iirc).

[conflux.livejournal.com]

Yes, he was named after his great uncle Theodor Estermann who was a mathmo of some renown. We spelled it the English way Theodore rather than the German way though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Estermann

[sparklielizard.livejournal.com]

Fascinating! Only recently I saw on a forum (you can guess which..) where somebody said to another member - "Oh, I knew you were British when you mentioned your children's names". I guess some Americans are aware we're a bit different when it comes to names!

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

That's true. I hadn't realised how little overlap there was, though, until I started going through. I might do the other way around next.

And Australian names seem to be completely different again.

[sparklielizard.livejournal.com]

I'd be interested in what Australian names are like! They can't all be Bruce, Sheila and Kylie* ;P

*I don't actually even know any real Australians with those names.. can't imagine why! ;-)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

My perception (from the forum) is that there are a lot more nature names, and all the nature is different, too.

[sparklielizard.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Sounds nice, actually :-)

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Yes, I like them. I'll have to see whether I can find an Australian top names list - so far I can only find them for the individual states.

[firinel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, naming is definitely an area where there's not as much cultural overlap. Not just in the name itself, but in the whole put together thing. Everyone comments on R and the boy's names. We had it again when we went to the passport office just.


The people who I know, in America, who are Muslim, would be unlikely to saddle their child with any of the spellings of Mohammed, because they know how bigoted the rest of the country is against Muslims and Mohammed is, better to have a name that has some level of plausible deniability, as even to people who largely don't have any realistic idea of Muslims, the name is a tell-tale.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see. I don't know many Muslims personally, but the ones I do tend to have Mohammad (in whatever spelling) as the first name, but go by the middle name.

[sphyg.livejournal.com]

The Rosie reception has lists of top 10 national and local names.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

*nod* The National Staistics Online has downloadable lists of all names given to at least 3 children. That's how I know there were only 12 Judiths in 2008.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15282

[the-alchemist.livejournal.com]

Gosh, there were 113 Demi-Leighs! I've never heard of anyone called Demi-Leigh.

[feanelwa.livejournal.com]

113? That's 56 Leighs and a half left over.

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

-Leigh seems to be a relatively common suffix for names. I used to know a Demi, but she was short for Demelza.

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

Is that in case you get there and don't have any ideas yet?

[ghoti.livejournal.com]

I thin it's more because they get asked a lot what's popular locally.

[hilarityallen.livejournal.com]

Presumably because they don't want there to be 17 other Marys in the Reception class? (My schools were overrun with Rach(a)els, spelt in many different ways.)